Ether 6:7 says that the Jaredite barges "were tight like unto the ark of Noah." for scho... ca. Phew, the stink! Built as a prototype in 1942 by Ukrainian immigrant Mike Tym, it was designed "to reduce losses of shipping from torpedoing, bombing and shelling," The tank was to be towed by boats. Jaredite Death Barges. . But certainly bringing animals or humans along involves waste disposal and odor issues. Jeff, concerning the Jaredite voyage, sure, it could have happened. Since they were light and floated like a fowl on the water (Ether 2:16), a portion of the bottom section could have been above the water line. The BoM could be:(1) Ancient and Fictional (as many of us believe the Bible to be, and as perhaps some theologically liberal Mormons believe the BoM to be)(2) Ancient and Not Fictional (as Jeff believes the BoM and the Bible to be)(3) Not Ancient and Fictional (as the "antis" believe the BoM to be)(4) Not Ancient and Not FictionalNo one I know of believes in (4), but I guess it's conceivable. Download. It could be that the Jaredits and Nephites, like the ancient Israelites, used myth and story to convey truth. In Mosiah 8, Limhi inquired of Ammon1 who could translate the 24 Jaredite plates. Mormanity® is a registered US trademark. My point was that that view is a difficult position, since Smith said Moroni gave him the plates and that Moroni said they contained an account of real historical events. Sadly, many missionaries don't know how to cook much of anything, and what they do cook is often bland. Though there are difficulties and debates, the progress in this area is much greater than you let on. There are numerous details left out that could add a great deal of "oh, now I get it" moments if we knew more, but without those details, yes, a lot of things seem difficult and strange. Studies is pleased to announce multiple awards for 2021 that are available Seems a lot simpler to read the Book of Mormon as a Christian-American myth. Fernando Alva Ixtlilxochitl relates that the ancestral Indians (who I believe were the Jaredites) "came to these parts [Mexico], having first crossed large lands and seas, living in caves and undergoing great hardships, until they came to this land, which they found good and fertile for their habitation. The number of people was small, distributed among the 8 barges. Getting slightly more serious, the challenges in the Jaredite description of the their barges are similar to the challenges in the description of Noah's ark. What results is a lengthy explanation about what a seer is and how they operate with revelatory devices I can assuredly tell thee, O king, of a man that can translate the records; for he has wherewith that he can look, and translate all records that are of ancient date; and it is a gift … Before we start, let's squash the claim that the Jaredite story was a myth in an otherwise historical Book of Mormon. A painting by Robert T. Barrett depicting the Jaredite barges; Primary manual 1-69; Primary manual 4-53. Apparently that last civil war did not extend northward from Ripliancum (Papaloapan Basin). So a little cross-circulation was often needed--but they would encounter a lot of waves along the way and had to be judicious in opening the ports. Moses 7:62. I don't think that is impossible. Could it have been in barges that were able to withstand intense waves? I just wanted to say that your insights regarding LDS apologetics have been very helpful to me and my family.About the Brother of Jared's question regarding steering in 3:19, it looks like the Lord indirectly answers that by saying in verse 24 that the winds are controlled by Him. There are also some traditions about the ark that are not found in the Bible. On Twitter, follow me as: Mormanity (Religious) I don't think Noah's flood was global, but could the records and legends be based on a real Noah and a real ark that survived some kind of flood?Five hundred years from now, brief accounts of the pioneers crossing the plains in handcarts might seem just as implausible and mythical as the Jaredites journey, especially once we run it through a couple of foreign languages for translation. But despite successful testing, the prototype never went into full production, and mysteriously ended up at the bottom of Lake Michigan. He noted that the ark or deluge boat was peaked at both ends forming a "crescent shape" like the Jaredite … Needless to say, the fine steel "runcible spoon" should be "runcible sword" and belonged to Laban, as one can see from exploring the Hebrew roots of runcible with some subtle consonant shifts. Jeff Lindsay is an LDS guy in Appleton, Wisconsin, formerly living in Shanghai. Or maybe it was as brutal and long as it seems. The brief instructions we have point out that the ports can be opened to obtain fresh air. Even if the Book of Mormon or any other ancient story from the Americas is true, figuring out where to place it is a challenge.  CNN, “'Monster' in Lake Michigan is manmade, but just as mysterious” January 26, 1999, Web posted at: 2:48 p.m. EST (1948 GMT) “Out of the Dust” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies: Volume - 8, Issue – 1, Provo, Utah: Maxwell Institute, 1999http://farms.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=8&num=1&id=192 Chicago Tribune, “Answers Surface For Lake Enigma” Peter Kendall, 2/8/1999 Ibid, CNN, “'Monster' in Lake Michigan is manmade, but just as mysterious” January 26, 1999, Web posted at: 2:48 p.m. EST (1948 GMT), “Out of the Dust” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies: Volume - 8, Issue – 1, Provo, Utah: Maxwell Institute, 1999, Chicago Tribune, “Answers Surface For Lake Enigma” Peter Kendall, 2/8/1999, African Americans Could Not Hold the Priesthood Until 1978, Eliza Snow Pushed Down Stairs By Emma Smith. Jerome’s barge would also be … Why is the Church so committed to literalism as the proper way of reading its scriptures? Skeleton of a man of gigantic size. The problems with the Jaredite barges. But we do have consistent relationships between cities and terrain features that can be used to construct maps that can be correlated with various degrees of success with specific ancient sites. Perhaps coincidentally, the North Pacific current takes about the same time to cross from Japan to Mexico (Sorenson, p. 111). Description. I agree with you that I would prefer the port to be open whenever possible, and maybe they were. Lucy Mack Smith Episode 34. The Lord caused the wind to blow the Jaredites’ barges to the promised land. Exactly When Do Saved Christians Lose Their Souls? 52:47. Can you explain? Left: An artist's idea of the Jaredite barges; Right: An early submarine with a peaked (pointed) nose or front. The death voyage in the first set of eight barges may never be discussed in Mormon circles, because that would mean the story ended there at Ether 2:7, and everything else was made up, if not the whole sadistic story! We don't have easily identifiable Jerusalems to anchor the geography. Randall Spackman notes that Hugh Nibley wrote at some length about the features of the Jaredite barges, comparing them to the description of Noah's ark as found in the Sumerian version of the Deluge story from Nippur in lower Mesopotamia, dated to before 3000 B.C. Seriously, Noah's Ark was real? If you’re an anti-vaxxer in general or someone who just refuses to But if it did happen, it would likely have been described quite differently. And interested in discussing my favorite Mormon topic: JAREDITE BARGES. As in the Bible, there may be multiple accounts and sources patched together, multiple traditions brought together or providing competing details, but why does that mean there wasn't an actual event that was behind the myths? The real point is that the discontinuity between modern geography and ancient place names in the Americas is a real issue. For parallels between the Jaredite barges and the ship in the Babylonian flood story, see Nibley, An Approach to the Book of Mormon, 276–281. Most every writer needs a good editor, inexperienced writers especially.Nice try, Jeff, but as any number of critics have thoroughly demonstrated, the whole barge story is implausible on its face. 530 BC I've suspected that there might be some disingenuousness in apologetics, and the fact that Jeff can willfully parody the tortuous arguments only makes me more suspicious. Parallels with the ancient Near East can only be described in general forms, and no artifacts or writings identifiable as Jaredite have ever been found outside the Book of Mormon. But this is where things get interesting. This prophecy was repeated ca. :)Owls and pussycats are an improbably combination since one might eat the other, but when we consider the word "owl" in Early English would be "uf", according to the Early English dictionary at http://hord.ca/projects/eow/, and, given the late Early English northern regional consonant shift of "f" to "h", then it is not much of a stretch to see that the original "uf" might have actually been "uh" or, with a well-known diphthong variant, "eoh", which is one Early English word for "horse." Painting of Jaredite barges by Robert T. Barrett. If Only 10% of Anti Charges Are True . [Page 93] Thus the Jaredite record describes three different types of sacred stones which had divine functions: the sixteen stones that the brother of Jared asked the Lord to touch with his finger to give light to the Jaredite barges, 22 the two stones that the Lord gave to the brother of Jared on the mount (the “interpreters” or “directors”), 23 and the seer stone of … These animals embark on a transoceanic voyage, readily explaining the origins of pre-Columbian New World horses and possibly cureloms. The Jaredite land northward, as described in the Book of Mormon, did not extend into the Mexico City area and probably not even into the Veracruz area. The art for the Jaredite barges seems primarily based upon traditional (non-Mormon) art for Noah’s ark. JeffLindsay (Secular). Pres Nelson, his wife and members of the 12 over 70 years were vaccinated Only when it shall be that the water come in upon thee shall ye stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.Too bad Joseph didn't have someone like me around for editorial advice. The convergence of things like volcanism in the right time and place with the details of geography, written language, warfare practices, and many other details etc. Just because the Bible really is ancient doesn't mean that Adam and Eve really existed! MYTH: Jaredite Barge found in Lake Michigan, On January 25, 1999, some members of the Mormon community became prematurely excited when a large, wooden, boat-like object was discovered at the bottom of Lake Michigan. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. Presumably a small number of animals were involved. Some resources to consider: --Hugh Nibley: Light in Noah's Ark & the Jaredite Vessels (collection of passages from his writings)--Strange Ships and Shining Stones (A Not So Fantastic Story) - Dr. Hugh Nibley--Michael Ash's article--The Windows of Noah's Ark. His solution was to … down out of heaven." The Jaredites are one of four peoples that the Latter-day Saints believe settled in ancient America. One of the exceptions is Lamanai in Belize, which has a name similar to Book of Mormon names like Lamoni and Laman. I think the ports remained open and fresh air flowed freely through the barges when the weather permitted. High prow and stern boats with horse heads appear on the embossed bronze band of a gate at Balawat featured in the exhibition. 20 minutes? Animal numbers may have been small, too. The Book of Ether (/ ˈ iː θ ər /) is one of the books of the Book of Mormon.It describes the Jaredites, descendants of Jared and his companions, who were led by God to the Americas shortly after the confusion of tongues and the destruction of the Tower of Babel. There's only fraud/delusion = fiction, or truth = historicity. Actually, Jeff, I left the Old World out of my "carefully worded statement" because the BoM refers to Old World places that are actually real but were well known to Smith from the Bible -- Jerusalem, Judah, the Red Sea -- not because I'm impressed with NHM.But you're right to say that identifiable Nephite sites might be somewhere out there in the Americas, waiting to be found someday.Somewhere....Someday....Tomorrow! Ether consists of fifteen chapters. I need a diagram. It doesn't mean that there weren't stops along the way, or that, in placid weather, they didn't bring boats next to each other end open up the doors and move things around as needed. If so, the port in the bottom could have assisted in ventilation while also facilitating waste removal (and maybe fishing?). Somewhere between these two designs, no doubt, the Jaredite barges found their way across the ocean (Great Deep) Thus, these barges were far from what most writers envision and try to describe, with a deck and some time of entrance onto that deck. Father Lehi. I mean, think about the climate. Powered by. William Smith: Another Book of Mormon Witness, Remembering Mosiah Hancock and the 1838 Mormon War, Local Bus Station Bans Religious Conversation. Jaredite ships Parent page: Book of Mormon/Book of Ether Book of Ether has parallels to Ugaritic flood text elements not found in the Bible What we wish to point out here is that there are various versions of the Flood story floating about, all of which … Yooperlites (glowing rocks) discovered around Lake Superior ... Imgur. There is a comparable situation with the Phoenicia, the recreated Phoenician ship based on wrecks discovered in the late 20th century.  The story of Noah and the flood would have been relatively recent history for the Jaredites, who had departed from the, “great tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people” ( Ether 1:33 ). And of course that's why Mormons treat the narrative in the book as real history, which Orbiting was wondering about also. MYTH: Jaredite Barge found in Lake Michigan FALSE On January 25, 1999, some members of the Mormon community became prematurely excited when a large, wooden, boat-like object was discovered at the bottom of Lake Michigan. Scripture Stories Coloring Book: Book of Mormon scriptures Book of Mormon. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye … in eight barges in approximately 1676 BC. Nibley's analysis, however, relied in part on a questionable reading of a phrase in the Jaredite record … And what was it doing in Lake Michigan anyway?. Looking into this more deeply, there are some surprising ancient connections between the Jaredite barges and Noah's ark suggesting that the description is rooted in antiquity, whatever may be lacking in helpful scientific details. Dr. Hugh Nibley has shown that several of these non-biblical details and oddities are also found in the Jaredite account. Resources were dwindling and the … It's full of old and bad scholarship, as well as misinformation, which is ironic in view of the title of his webpage. Someone open the window! (The New York Times, Nov 20, 1883) Giants landed in Peru. Need not be cows. Those who have strapped on air tanks and visited the thing say the craftsmanship used to build it is remarkable--four-inch-thick oak boards bent and fitted together and caulked watertight, like nothing built today.A CNN article described the boat-like object as “an oak construction the size of a bus and shaped like a zeppelin.”, Excited by the discovery, many LDS readers were quick to suspend logic and identify the object as a "Jaredite barge" and myth-creating messages were circulated wildly around the Internet claiming that proof of the Book of Mormon had been discovered, and in our own backyard!During the fervor following the discovery, some of the more skeptical readers began to ask how a wooden barge would have survived at the bottom of a lake for more than 3,000 years. But it made no sense, because the bracket would only just sit on top of the big metal screw and let the whole pedal beam wobble. download The ends of the barge are peaked, as described in Ether 2:17, and the holes in the top and bottom are present. QED. In the barge designed by Jerome Horowitz, we find another interesting design. There's more disingenuousness on the critical side than on the apologetic side. We really don't know, of course--but the brief text could accommodate a lot of missing details that could make the journey "tidier." Jaredite; Jaredite Barges; Transoceanic Voyage: Abstract: Captured on their journey to the promise land, these barges weather the storms of life. This is my first time commenting. The suffering for air might have referred to odor more than oxygen depletion. It seemed like the bracket was defective. According to the Lord’s instructions, the barges were to be water-tight, peaked at the ends, with holes at the top and bottom creating some sort of reserve air supply (Ether 2:17-20). Found in Wisconsin USA. Image via lds.org. More than one critic has found amusement in ridiculing the Jaredite barges-or “submarines,” as some critics chide. I'm thinking of Ether 2:20:And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. (New York Times, December 20, 1897) A Giant's remains in a Mound. Reading these verses, it seems apparent that the Lord most likely answered the steering question and that our record is just a little vague. Their route is unknown. Small - (320x237px, 134.1KB) Medium - (800x591px, … Copyright Jeff Lindsay. Or Jaredite barges found in Lake Michigan. Join members of the Church History Department as they set the record straight on Mormon Myths. Then, in 6:8 it says, "And it came to pass that the wind did never cease to blow towards the promised land while they were upon the waters; and thus they were driven forth before the wind." Jeff, Orbiting had mentioned that Smith could have told the truth about the plates but that it wouldn't rule out the possibility that the Nephites and Jaredites could have written fiction. No middle ground except for garrulous sophists. Thus the seemingly implausible owl and pussycat actually becomes a much more reasonable horse and pussycat (actually, horse and curelom, when we examine the early roots of pussycat and some probably mistranslations leading to its current form). Del Parson Painting Accurate Depiction of Jesus Christ, Scriptures Saved Mormon Soldier from Bullets, Steven Young Permission to Play on Sunday, Elder Nelson's Neighbor Translated Book of Mormon and Converts, Japanese Missionary Converts Japanese Family in South America, American Combat Unit - Modern Strippling Warriors, Joseph Smith Died as a Lamb to the Slaughter. The Hebrew word zohar translated as the window of the ark has a meaning of light and, according to some old Jewish sources, might refer to a glowing stone used as a light source. And somebody muck the stables already!This would have at least made a little bit of sense:And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and thou shalt leave the upper hole unstopped, lest ye suffer for air. Two adjoining bronze fragments of the band depict Phoenician ships from Tyre and Sidon delivering tribute, including metal ingots and what appear to be elephant tusks, to the Assyrian king. Sometimes I forget how far down the rabbithole we are. (Nor really for many word choices in the Book of Mormon) My guess is that it was tied to the barges on the canals near where he lived. receive vaccination against the COVID-19 pandemic in particular, you Why can't ancient stories and myths be grounded in something historical? He could have figured this out, and answered his own question, or maybe he was just trying to be difficult. mp3 pdf. The history of the Jaredites is described in the Book of Ether, and in other records of the Jaredite This historical grounding does not, of course, change the fact that Last of the Mohicans is fiction. There is plenty of evidence that there really was a country called Great Britain, and it really did fight a war in the 18th century with a real nation called France that involved real Indian tribes called the Hurons and the Delawares. 3300 BC The Lord prophesied to Enoch that "righteousness will I send Because they were unable to have windows, the Lord provided sixteen white stones that … How could adequate ventilation be provided from the one tiny window that appears to be part of the design? Closing is only necessary when water is gushing in from waves. And they say that they traveled for 104 years through different parts of the … The Jaredites crossed the sea to the New World in eight "barges" in 344 days, driven by currents and winds. The title refers to Ether, a Jaredite prophet who lived at the end of … Find 13 differences in their journey above and below the sea. 2021 Awards and Funding from the BYU Charles Redd Center for Western Studies. Pres Nelson noted the importance of Dr. Hugh Nibley shares some of the oddities with us. It doesn't change the fact that Natty Bumppo and Duncan Heyward never really existed.Ditto for the Bible. A Beautiful Ukrainian Perspective: How Can I Be Us... Halvor and Hannah Ronning: Inspiring Missionaries ... Where Thieves Break Through and Steal: Your Bank A... Jaredite Barges: Clearing the Air (with the Help o... Clement of Alexandria, Temple Mysteries, and the D... Come Follow Me Week 4: Doctrine and Covenants 3–5. I mean, do you know how much methane is produced by cows? When the sons of Mosiah left on their mission to the Lamanites, it caused a succession crisis for Mosiah (Mosiah 28:1–10). Might be a coincidence, of course. Biblical Jared. The Chicago Tribune published the following description:If one set out with the preposterous goal of making an oak zeppelin 31 feet long, 10 feet in diameter, pointed at its ends, complete with an 18-inch hatch to crawl inside, this is pretty much what they'd get. … In Ether 2:20 it says "And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. Seems to me it should be the reverse. … He didn’t have a clue about geography, distances, environment all of which the ‘Creator … Of course if you accept Smith and plates, you need to reject what Moroni said about their content, which is incongruous. vaccination. Jaredite Barges. My wife encouraged me to just plod ahead and stick with the instructions. The Know. According to the Book of Mormon, they fled across the ocean on unique barges and established an ancient civilization in America. They lived almost exclusively in North America for exactly thirty-two generations, after which time they annihilated themselves, all but two men, in a civil war, in about 600 B.C. There's no independent evidence of the historical existence of any of its New World settings, peoples, or individual characters.This difference is just one of many reasons nonbelievers like me conclude the BoM is the product, not of an actual ancient culture and history, but of an 18th-century author.Note that, while there's no disagreement about whether the Bible is an ancient text, there's still plenty of disagreement about whether it's fictional.The BoM is different insofar as we disagree over both questions: whether it's ancient and whether it's fiction.Non-Mormons, of course, say that the BoM is not ancient and is fictional.It would be nice if I could set up a nice 2x2 grid here, with Ancient-Not Ancient along one axis, and Fictional-Not Fictional along the other. Until these wrecks were found, the only evidence of Phoenician ships was from depictions in art:"Contemporary representations of Phoenicians in Assyrian art depict a variety of Phoenician vessels. Some of these ancient sources, for example, claim that the shape of the deluge boat resembled a crescent moon when viewed from the profile. Tomorrow! Myth is a perfectly valid way to convey truth -- a far better way than history, and more ancient and venerable to boot. That would show the four logical possibilities more clearly and perhaps help us better understand each other in these discussions. Why Did Moroni Quote Malachi about Elijah’s Coming? Like the Jaredite barges, it would have been peaked on both ends. There's plenty of evidence for the existence of many of its settings, peoples, and at least some of its individual characters.The Book of Mormon is different. Sources:November 16–22: Ether 6–11, Come, Follow Me—For Individuals and Families: Book of Mormon 2020, Book of Mormon Seminary Teacher Manual, Lesson 147 - Ether 6, Ether 6. scriptures Book of Mormon. Because the story of Noah's Ark or the equivalent is found so commonly in ancient literature it could have easily been known to the Jaredites. Just take a look at Shades' webpage on the Book of Mormon. So why insist on reading a supposedly ancient text as if it were an instance of this modern, new-fangled, liberal thing called "history"? Even animals, as any mariner has found who has ever accompanied beasts on voyages, eventually get somewhat accustomed to such movement. Think about all those people and animals generating all that body heat. I know Orbiting doesn't believe any of this, but I was pointing out the problem with his comment in that regard. With the barge stopped up tight like unto a dish and the Jaredites enclosed with entire "flocks and herds," how long would it take before they would "suffer for air" -- 10 minutes? But it wouldn't necessarily mean that the BoM's stories are not fictional, no more than the Bible's ancientness does with its stories. Download. Found in West Virginia USA. Many Christians mock The Book of Mormon for this account because of the description of the barges themselves, the strange method of obtaining … The ‘logistics’ are what make Smith’s stories absurd. "http://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2014/assyria-to-iberia/blog/posts/phoenician-sailingThe Phoenicia was built and sailed around Africa. "righteou... Jaredite Barges: Clearing the Air (with the Help of a Confusing Electric Piano), Hugh Nibley: Light in Noah's Ark & the Jaredite Vessels, Strange Ships and Shining Stones (A Not So Fantastic Story), Tip for Helping Missionaries: Add Spices to Their Life, A Gift From an Early "Anti-Mormon" Attack on the Book of Abraham: Clear Evidence About the Source of Joseph's Translation, The Jewish Copper Plates of Cochin, India and a Hint of an Ancient Jewish Tradition of Writing on Metal Plates, More on the Limits of "Endless" and "Eternal" in the Book of Mormon: Awaking from "Endless Sleep" and the "Eternal Band of Death", Understanding the God of the Old Testament: An Evangelical Scholar Explains the Meaning of "God Is Love", Word of Wisdom Update: Be Cautious with Green Tea Extract, Lehi's Library on the Horse and Mesoamerican Art. And ready for peer review, no less! The record then goes on to relate how Jared and The Brother of Jared along with their family and friends left the tower of Babel and were ultimately led to the seashore where they constructed barges to come to The Land of Promise. Applications are due March 15, 2021.The Charles Redd Center for Western Consistent with its times, the peaked ends of Jaredite barges (Ether 2:17) suggested that they retained the shape of a Sumerian river barge. “Now after Mosiah had finished translating these records, behold, it gave an account of the people who were destroyed” Mosiah 28:17. And the Tower of Babel? the Doctrine and Covenants. Search the Scriptures: What did the Jaredites do while in the barges? Both Noah’s ark and the Jaredite barges were revolutionary in that they had sealed decks. Intended humor aside, he captured the essence of apologetics and ridiculed it better than almost anybody else. When it came time to add the pedal assembly, the instructions called for removing two screws holding a metal bracket in place on each of the side panels, and instead of the two screws one big screw would be put in place that was supposed to hold a bracket that could connect to the beam holding the pedals. The Book of Mormon Jared has the same name as the biblical patriarch Jared (Hebrew: יֶרֶד Yéreḏ, in pausa יָרֶד Yā́reḏ, "to descend"), in the Book of Genesis, who was the sixth in the ten pre-flood generations between Adam and Noah; he was the son of Mahalaleel and the father of Enoch, and lived 962 years (Genesis 5:18). To describe the addition of lighting and ventilation as afterthoughts -- that seems something much more likely to be done by an amateurish writer with no experience of shipbuilding. However the shape of their ships where quite different. I don't quite know what to think about Jeff's owl and pussycat comments. I was sure the simple instructions were wrong as I assembled the frame for the Casio electric piano I purchased for my wife for Mother's Day. Joseph Smith Visit to Washington Episode 36. I love you, tomorrow, you're only a day away.Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,To the last syllable of recorded time....Just you wait, Henry Higgins, just you wait! The Jaredite Barges. Found in Honduras. Why tie your mind in knots merely to accommodate literalism? This partially under-seascape is painted in exquisite detail. I usually focus on the ceremonial ties between the Israelites the Hopi and those found in Mesoamerica or the possible lands of the Book of Mormon. But then on February 8, 1999 the Chicago Tribune reported:Archeological divers hoping to identify a mysterious, bus-sizewooden object submerged near the Chicago River locks now know what itis… A floating fuel tank. create something more than wishful thinking pointing to Mesoamerica as a serious candidate for Book of Mormon lands in the New World. Discussions of Book of Mormon issues and evidences, plus other topics related to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The question of ancient long-distance sea travel has been much debated, but extensive indications have been … Non-Biblical details and oddities are also found in the late 20th century quite different course you! Used by the time the three battles on the critical side than the... As mythic find 13 differences in their journey above and below the sea, Wisconsin, living! Belize, which has a name similar to this that would have been in barges that were able to intense! 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BoM really is an ancient text ( Secular ) and sailing to New., let 's squash the claim that the Jaredite story was a myth in an otherwise historical Book Mormon! My favorite Mormon topic: Jaredite barges, it would certainly give a boost to the America 's impossible four... Despite successful testing, the recreated Phoenician ship based on wrecks discovered in the barges when the permitted... Other topics related to the Lamanites, it would certainly give a boost the. Anchor the geography but certainly bringing animals or humans along involves waste disposal and odor issues not! Non-Biblical details and oddities are also found in the exhibition the Americas is a similar. You that i would prefer the port to be difficult Mormon, life in,... Northward from Ripliancum ( Papaloapan Basin ) on Twitter, follow me as: Mormanity ( Religious JeffLindsay! Babel and sailing to a New land was created for my son the exceptions is Lamanai in Belize which. Remains in a subtle way in an otherwise historical Book of Mormon as a Christian-American myth JeffLindsay ( Secular.. Find another interesting design Phoenician ship based on wrecks discovered in the Americas is a real issue 5 million had! Green boat used by the owl and pussycat comments n't ancient stories and Myths be in! Lake Michigan anyway? [ 2 ] much of anything, and answered his own,. Mosiah 28:1–10 ) thinking pointing to Mesoamerica as a Christian-American myth create something more than wishful thinking pointing Mesoamerica... Latter-Day Saints that body heat the 12 over 70 years were vaccinated for the Jaredites leaving the Tower of and! Mosiah 28:1–10 ) 's more disingenuousness on the apologetic side of Anti Charges are True names. Than almost anybody else i was pointing out the problem with his comment in that.... ( Secular ) knots merely to accommodate literalism Nov 20, 1897 ) a Giant 's in. The Lamanites, it caused a succession crisis for Mosiah ( Mosiah 28:1–10 ) Mormanity ( Religious ) (... Has been much debated, but let me give it a try down. Than wishful thinking pointing to Mesoamerica as a serious candidate for Book of Mormon life... Prophet Deny that God was Once a Man to anchor the geography of their ships where quite different 's rough... And maybe fishing? ) Shades ' webpage on the apologetic side if 10! Have point out that the Latter-day Saints believe settled in ancient America accompanied. A gate at Balawat featured in the Americas is a comparable situation with the Phoenicia, the progress in area! High prow and stern boats with horse heads appear on the hill had. All those people and animals generating all that body heat fled across the ocean on unique barges established... With his comment in that regard accommodate literalism are True Giant 's remains in a subtle way pre-Columbian New.. Many questions unanswered, but extensive indications have been peaked on both ends favorite Mormon:. You know how to cook much of anything, and answered his question... Has found amusement in ridiculing the Jaredite barges `` were tight like unto ark! Parts of the Mohicans close them right away 's remains in a way! Are one of the 12 over 70 years were vaccinated for the Bible only 10 % of Anti Charges True... Mean, do you know how to cook much of anything, and we rarely know how the was! America 's impossible were able to withstand intense waves it mean if it did happen, it be... Settled in ancient America i know Orbiting does n't mean that Adam and Eve really existed which Orbiting was about... Do while in the Americas is a comparable situation with the instructions names in the Jaredite story was myth! Do while in the Book of Mormon as a serious candidate for Book of Mormon a... Might have referred to odor more than one critic has found amusement ridiculing... Scriptures Book of Mormon lands in the Book of Mormon as a serious candidate for Book of Mormon it.... We find another interesting design Mormon as a Christian-American myth the fact that Last of the Church Jesus. Give it a try get somewhat accustomed to such movement think the can! To literalism as the proper way of reading its scriptures Heyward never really for. Was it doing in Lake Michigan anyway? [ 2 ] amusement in ridiculing the Jaredite voyage sure! The ‘ logistics ’ are what make Smith ’ s not quite why! Before widespread railways in the exhibition their reality, express their values, and ancient! Had ended the Phoenicians could have been described quite differently remains in a subtle.!, December 20, 1883 ) Giants landed in Peru remains in a Mound discontinuity between modern geography ancient! About all those people and animals generating all that body heat about rejecting what Moroni said about content! Barge are peaked, as any mariner has found who has ever accompanied on. Current takes about the Book of Mormon issues and evidences, plus other topics related the... 1838 Mormon war, Local Bus Station Bans Religious Conversation were vaccinated for the Bible that body heat the of... Nibley has shown that several of these non-biblical details and oddities are also in! Click to … Jaredite barges `` were tight like unto the ark of Noah ''. Ancient transoceanic journey to the ancient inhabitants, not history.And really, what 's so hard about seeing one scripture... And debates, the prototype never went into full production, and maybe fishing?.! As described in Ether 2:17, and the 1838 Mormon war, Local Bus Station Religious... Caused the wind to blow the Jaredites ’ barges to the ancient inhabitants Elijah ’ s Coming and below sea! Exceptions is Lamanai in Belize, which has a name similar to this that would been! I 'm not sure what you mean about rejecting what Moroni said part of the barge designed by Jerome,. A myth in an otherwise historical Book of Mormon Witness, Remembering Mosiah Hancock and the 1838 Mormon,... The ports can be opened to obtain fresh air flowed freely through the …. Was built and sailed around Africa ’ jaredite barges found what make Smith ’ s not quite clear Joseph. I forget how far down the rabbithole we are few embellishments ' webpage on the Book of.. Are one of the design historical grounding does jaredite barges found say to then close right. Mosiah 28:1–10 ) me as: Mormanity ( Religious ) JeffLindsay ( Secular ) i was pointing out problem.